There is a sign posted on the front doors of St. Paul and St. Andrew Methodist Church in New York City. It reads: "ICE and Homeland Security is not permitted."
"We consider churches still to be sensitive locations," Pastor K Karpen told Scripps News. "Whatever the changes in the government policy might or might not be, to us, these are sensitive locations."
After the current Trump administration rescinded a long-standing policy limiting Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrests near churches, schools and hospitals, faith communities were left grappling with what to do when officers come knocking.
"We were afraid when they first issued the change in the rulings about churches and hospitals and schools and libraries. We were afraid that people would be scared to come here," Karpen said about the revoked sensitive locations guidance.
The policy change came as part of the Trump administration's ongoing crackdown on illegal immigration.
"Criminals will no longer be able to hide in America's schools and churches to avoid arrest," a statement from the Department of Homeland Security reads.
The administration has zeroed in on so-called sanctuary cities like New York, Chicago and Boston. While there is no legal or strict definition for sanctuary cities, the term denotes a sanctuary jurisdiction where cooperation with federal immigration enforcement is restricted. Mayors of these cities, while testifying during a House hearing earlier this month, said sanctuary policies ensure undocumented immigrants who are victims or witnesses of a crime can come forward.
But as the Trump administration carries out its mass deportation plan, many undocumented immigrants and their communities have all but gone into hiding.
"Certainly, there are some people I know of who have barely left their apartments since this new administration came in, but I've been pretty gratified to see that people are still coming here," Karpen said.
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Karpen, who has been senior pastor at St. Paul and St. Andrew for more than 40 years, said the church became a sanctuary during President Donald Trump's first term in office. For about seven years, it has offered support to asylum seekers and immigrants facing deportation.
"There's a long, long tradition in Christianity of providing sanctuary. It goes back to the Middle Ages and even before," Karpen said. When asylum seekers show up at the church, they're provided resources like food, clothes and access to attorneys.
"The people who come to our doors are people who, first of all, have come here at great personal hardship. They've come here because they have wanted a safe place for their families and them to live and to thrive," Karpen said. "And who need a great deal of things to just get started – as any of us would in a new land, a new place, a new neighborhood."
Long-time church members like Karen Collins, who has attended services at St. Paul and St. Andrew for more than 20 years, said they are advised on how to support asylum seekers. The former school principal has supported the church's sanctuary status since the decision was made in 2018.
"It's completely consistent with being there for people in need. It's completely consistent with what we believe our faith requires of us," Collins said. "I firmly believe that every church should be doing this."
"Houses of worship for not five years, not 20 years, but for thousands of years have been spaces where the most vulnerable people go to get what they need, whether that's material or spiritual," said Brennan Brink, associate director for migrant outreach at the Interfaith Center of New York. "And I can't imagine a house of worship that is turning their back on providing that sort of sanctuary in days like today."
But Dr. Robert Jeffress, pastor of the First Baptist Church, a conservative megachurch in Dallas, Texas, can.
"We would not use that term sanctuary church because it's fraught with all kinds of misunderstanding that we are aiding and abetting criminals," Jeffress told Scripps News, adding that he doubts "hardened criminals" tend to hang out in churches.
Jeffress said he has no way of knowing if someone sitting in the pews on Sunday is in the U.S. legally or not.
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"The fact is, if anybody asks for help here, we don't ask about their immigration status. That's not our job," he said.
When asked what he would do if ICE came knocking, Jeffress said he'd welcome the agents inside.
"We have no right to stop them that they want to come in. Just like if the police come in, they want to come in. We have no right to stop them," he said. "We don't decide who can and can't come on our premises, and it's our job to welcome everyone."
Karpen doesn't anticipate ICE showing up at St. Paul and St. Andrew, but says the church is prepared they do.
"I think if they showed up and they had a proper warrant, the first thing I'd do is I would check with our attorneys who are always on speed dial, and make sure they that it's legitimate, and then we would take it from there."
ICE can legally enter a church, like other private spaces, as long as agents have a warrant signed by a federal judge. For this reason, legal experts told Scripps News churches and other private property like businesses have begun to designate certain areas as private, even as they allow the general public inside. Some have put up signs like St. Paul and St. Andrew.
Karpen said in a time of widespread fear, houses of worship he's familiar with are continuing to provide a safe and trustworthy landing place for vulnerable communities.
"People ... rightly have a bit of suspicion, and especially these days before they're ready to put their trust into any institution and including the church. And so I'm very gratified that people see us as a safe place and a sanctuary," he said. "They know that we're going to have their backs."
